2Q's---Eye Splice and Saddles

Hi All. Let me just first apologize for being new, I know this is basic stuff but...
I'm shopping for basic gear for DdRT enough to get me started. I have decided on the Poison Ivy Rope. Now...

1. Do I need an eye splice
2. What is the purpose
3. Is it compatible with basic DdRT (so even if I don't need it now...might I want it later?)
4. Does it have something to do with split tails?

and 2nd question which saddle should I buy?
A. New tribe basic
B. Petzl Navajo

Ok I lied, thats more than two questions! Any help appreciated.

Originally posted by TreeBird
Hi All. Let me just first apologize for being new, I know this is basic stuff but...
I'm shopping for basic gear for DdRT enough to get me started. I have decided on the Poison Ivy Rope. Now...

1. Do I need an eye splice
2. What is the purpose
3. Is it compatible with basic DdRT (so even if I don't need it now...might I want it later?)
4. Does it have something to do with split tails?

and 2nd question which saddle should I buy?
A. New tribe basic
B. Petzl Navajo

Ok I lied, thats more than two questions! Any help appreciated.

You do not need an eye splice. It is for advanced climbers who have a specific reason to use it. It is irrelevant for your purposes. I've been climbing for 2 years and do not use an eye splice on my main climbing rope. Doesn't mean it's wrong to use an eye splice but it is not needed to climb. If you use the most easy to install and commonly used cambium saver (sleeve or pipe) the eyesplice will not allow you to climb on both ends of the rope.

You don't need an eyesplice to climb with a split tail. A split tail is not needed to climb DdRT. I don't use split tails, doesn't mean split tails are not good, just means they're not need to climb. It's an enhancement used for specific reasons.

Starting out it's best to keep your system clean and simple. You can add more components when you realize through climbing experience how they might help (or not help) you customize and optimize your system.
-moss

Originally posted by TreeBird
...and 2nd question which saddle should I buy?
A. New tribe basic
B. Petzl Navajo

A climber I know recently switched from a Petzl Navajo to an NT Tengu saddle. I can only describe their response as ecstatic revelation in the comfort difference. The NT saddles are designed for long hang times, which is a lot of what we do rec climbing. If you partially support your weight on the tree with your legs you can survive the Navajo better but... your legs will get tired very fast climbing this way.
-moss

Great information!
I totally forgot about the Cambium savers that would be a total drag.

I am trying to get the basic gear I need but getting quality products that will make upgrading easier. Its hard to know what to get when you don't know what you are doing. I watched the Tree Climbing Basics video which is where I cam up with my shopping list, but the whole eye-splice through me for a loop thanks for clearing that up!

As for saddles...I kinda figured that would be the answer...I just can't get over the fact that the Navajo looks better (No offense NT). I guess I'm shallow!

Anyone want to comment on my shopping list?
150ft Rope (poison ivy)
Saddle (NT or Navajo)
Helmet
2 leather Cambium savers
2 Tri-Act Petzl Am'd biners
5 accessory biners
225ft slickline (for 150' and 75' throwline)
2 Throw weights
Throwline bag
Rope bag

$523 before taxes and shipping

I agree with Moss the New Tribe Saddle is way more comfortable that the alternatives. I am sure that other people will disagree with me but I just ordered my third New Tribe Saddle and I am looking forward to its comfort. They last a long time ( I just gave my older saddle to my relatives in South America and they are so enthusiastic about climbing that I will shipping a couple of extra sets of gear including some small size kids saddles soon. ) The cost is also more reasonable than a regular Arborist Work Saddle. I suggest to get the Tengu Saddle or one of the basic ones with side "Ds". You will use the "side-Ds" later on as you get more advanced in the tree climbing for balancing and limb walking in the tree . ( speaking from 4 years of experience).

On the splice eye end. Give it up for now for the same reason Moss expressed earlier. TreeBird, Welcome to the Tree Climbing Community.

List looks good. The leather cambium savers can be tricky, they tend to work best for narrow diameter branches. The "Su Sleeve" or "Dan House" from NT is going to give you the greatest range of use and ease of installment for different diameter branches and limbs.

I know climbers who swear by the leather sleeves and I also know climbers who've bought them, tried them and never used them again.

Good or bad looking saddle?
After 15 minutes hanging on the rope you won't care what your saddle looks like if it isn't comfortable. It will end up gathering dust.
-moss

I'm glad you talked me out of the Navajo! And thanks Oldtimer for mentioning the side Ds I had been flirting with the idea of getting just the basic saddle. I'll go for the upgrade. It will cost about the same as the Navajo would've.

Now...I have they cambium saver dilemma. I thought leather was good, standard, easiest, best etc. And the others were slippery hard to keep on the branch and their only advantage being for use on larger branches. Now Moss has proved that may not be the opinion of all climbers. Comments?

ok so I read this http://www.tci-forums.com/viewthread.php?tid=1209
sound pretty good, I love that they can roll up and fit in a bag. I think I'll go for these. Thanks all.

Your kind words about the sleeves are greatly appreciated.

Dan

Nope- you don't need a splice to climb DRT or any other style of climbing. I do have to disagree with what moss said about them being for advanced climbers. It's just a different mind set...personal preference. I could even be argued that splices are better suited for those LESS advanced and unable to tie their own knots (though I'd question if those people should even be climbing on their own anyways....but that's another thread)

We know splices are stronger than knots. But our knots are much stronger than they need to be anyways, so strength is sortof a moot point.

For me and many of my clients, it's a about ease, simplicity, and cleanliness. I don't like looking down at a cluttered harness.

If you're going to be climbing split tail (which I recommend for ease of movement through the tree) and you don't mind paying a little extra, then get the splice. Very few people don't like having the splice once they've ordered it.

Regarding your shopping list. I say don't get the slick line and try the Zing-it. Slick line is weaker and very stretchy when compared to Zing-it.

Saddle- get the NT...the tengu looks nice. I've not heard much in the way of good report from tree climbers regarding the Navajo. The NT harnesses were MADE for us.

2 throw weights. Get a heavy and a light. You'll quickly learn when to use each. I keep an 8oz and a 12ounce on my throwline, and a 12ounce clipped to my harness.

Do you plan on taking your longer throwline up in the tree? If not, check out the faltheimer cube. Expensive, but folds compact and is very easy to flake into. There are other knock-off versions that are similar, though not as well built. Perhaps they are adequate for your needs.

For a rope bag- what do you have in mind? Do you need a back pack style for hiking in a few miles into the woods? Or just a simple round bag with handles? NT makes good rope bags.

Maybe get 1 Triact and 1 Am'D locking 'biner so you can see what locking mechanism you prefer?

Climb safe, and let me know if you need any split tails (spliced, of course!)

love
nick

I guess by advanced I mean "not a beginner". I think it's very useful for a new climber to know how to tie (and climb on) their system from scratch using knots.

I frequently climb on both ends of my rope (every climb) and use pipe or sleeve style cambium savers so an eye splice is not a good option for my climbing style. Unless I have the pipes permanently installed on my main rope (not going to happen). An eye splice makes very good sense for a split tail. But I still regard a split tail as something to be used after you learn to climb on a traditional Blakes setup - tying the harness connection knot and bridge using the end of the main climbing rope.

After you find a reason to use an eye splice (based on climbing experience, not theory or what someone tells you) I urge you to contact Nick, he does great work.
-moss

Originally posted by NickfromWI
I say don't get the slick line and try the Zing-it. Slick line is weaker and very stretchy when compared to Zing-it.

Interesting, I am a little scared of starting off with Zing-it, not so crazy about the idea of cuts. I'm getting the blackline from NT to learn on...I'll probably uprgrade to or at leat try out the Zing-it eventually.

Originally posted by NickfromWI

Saddle- get the NT...the tengu looks nice.

After all the comments I recieved I think I'd be silly to go for the Navajo. I went back and found the other saddles at the NT store (the Tengu and Vi are work saddles). I really like to color, and quiet/soft features of the Tengu. I think its the way I'll go. Thanks!

I also think I'll take your suggestion on the weights too. I was going to go for 2 12oz just cause I thought that sounded like a good universal weight and I would have a spare.
I picked out a medium rope bag from NT (Baileys was a few $ cheaper (don't know about quality) but NT had the color, olive)

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Maybe get 1 Triact and 1 Am'D locking 'biner so you can see what locking mechanism you prefer?

Now I am confused. I thought tri-act was a locking type and Am'd was a shape. Help?

Moss- I agree 100%- anyone who is learning to climb MUST know how to tie all their own knots, even if they are using splices.

Treebird- I might be phrasing it wrong- but the triacts have (usually) orange gates and lock by pushing and twisting the gate in the right order. The Am'D (I'm thinking of) are the ones with the black gates and the little green button.

I like the green button.

love
nick

Originally posted by moss
I guess by advanced I mean "not a beginner". I think it's very useful for a new climber to know how to tie (and climb on) their system from scratch using knots.

I frequently climb on both ends of my rope (every climb) and use pipe or sleeve style cambium savers so an eye splice is not a good option for my climbing style.

I am with you on starting from the basics...that is what I want to do learn with the mimimal amount of equipment and knots possible. I need to make sure I understand the foundation before I add any fancy stuff. The way I see it, the more equipment and knots I add the more likely I am going to mess something up. I work on making it more effienct after I know what I'm doing.

And I can't thank you enough for mentioning the problem of eyesplice and cambium savers I am definately *edit NOT*getting an eyeplice on my rope.

Ok I see what you are saying. I'm tracking now. I just checked and the the Tri-Act and Ball lock are two types of locking mechanisms, and William and Am'd are two shapes of the biners. (as far as I can tell)

Hey why not? I'll probably try the two type of locks.

I really would like to thank everyone sooooo much for helping me out with this stuff. Yall are great!