Why is a figure-8 placed on the BH bridge?

The purpose of this entry is to ask about the placement of a figure-8 stopper knot on the bridge of a Blake's Hitch. Sawmill1 presents a photo under the discussion of reducing the friction on the Blake's Hitch. Jepson's 2nd edition page 53 diagram doesn't show a figure-8 stopper on the bridge. I'm confident that the experienced climbers have a specific purpose. I can imagine that it prevents the clove hitch from crawling into the Blake's Hitch. However, maybe it's just a sign of a secret climbing organization??? Inspection of other photos on this website shows the same. I'm curious.

I was taught by Abe Winters that it's there only in case of an emergency where the rescuer has to cut the rope in order to save the climber. It allows an obvious place to cut the rope once the disabled climber is attached to the rescuer. With the knot there, you don't have to search around for the right place.

Also...when making that cut, it prevents your knife blade from slipping down the bridge and cutting your climbing line instead of the bridge. You just have to place your knife above the figure eight, and there's dramatically less danger of that sort of slip.

Tear and Rod, thanks for updating me on the fact that the figure-8 stopper knot on the Blake's Hitch bridge serves as a cutting reference point in the event of an emergency. It's always good to hear the voice of the experienced climbers behind these features.

Based on the fact that there are emergency coniditons which require the cutting of the bridge, what are the pros and cons of using the split tail climbing system as shown by Jepson 2nd edition page 53? Jepson indicates that the split tail climbing system allows for movements like recrotching. The benefit is that the Blake's Hitch isn't retied. The carabiner end is simply unclipped and reclipped to the harness as needed. The climbing line becomes a second lanyard. In this emergency condition, it seems that the carabiner could be unclipped.

Are the experienced climbers using a traditional system where the bridge is part of the climbing rope? Are the experienced climbers using the split-tail clipped to the harness where the bridge and Blake's Hitch are on a second shorter rope separate from the climbing rope?

Jim,

I use a split tail when I know that there are limbs that are going to interupt my climb. Once you get used to making switch-overs it works great.

Icabod

Jim,

I use the double split tail, which is just the split tail using both ends of the climbing rope (DREC). I actually started using this to prevent the ends of my climbing rope being "burned" while descending using the blakes hitch and having to cut off short sections of the rope. It was a little cumbersome at first but like anything else you get used to it with practice.

I use safety blue (all white rope) as my climbing rope and use the safety blue "high V" (white with some orange strands) as my split tail. This would allow any rescuer to differentiate between my climbing rope and split tail.

To answer the question of what experienced climbers are using, you probably get almost as many answers as there are climbers answering you. I feel the most important thing to keep in mind when trying a new techique is to practice in a low and controlled situation getting used to it before taking it into the real world.

Have a great day and climb safe!!!!

I just use the traditional setup. No split-tails or anything. The end of my climbing rope forms the bridge and Blake's hitch.

Josh

To answer your original Split-Tail question Jim: If you are using the Split-Tail and need to be rescued, the air rescuer would not need to cut the bridge, they would just unclip the carabiner in the middle of the split. Then the ground rescuer could just belay you down using your own down rope.

Regards,
-Knothead

I don't think you could unclip the carabiner until you have taken the climber's weight off the thing. How do you raise the climber enough to produce the slack needed to unclip the 'biner?

Clip him onto your own harness and give his rope slack until the weight's off his biner.


Josh

If the injured climber's knot will slip, allowing you to lower it enough to produce slack, why not just lower the climber all the way to the ground on his/her own knot? That would be better than having their weight hang on you and would certainly be a whole lot better than cutting their rope. This, of course, would only work if their knot was capable of sliding. If the knot won't slide, then you are back to the original problem of taking their weight off the bridge and carabiner.

If their knot is capable of being moved downward, my solution to the problem of rescue would be to place a knot-minder above their Blake's and lower myself back to the ground alonside the injured climber. The knot-minder could be attached by a short length of rope to my own harness and as I descend it would lower the injured climber alongside of me. Of course, it would be necessary for me to keep a hand on their downrope/ running end in order to monitor and control their descent. If another person were present on the ground, the person on the ground could tend the knot-minder while I was giving aid to the injured climber during the descent.

I think there are a lot of options that are better than cutting the rope. The only reason I could think of for cutting the rope would be in the event that the injured climber's Blake's was jammed and wouldn't move at all.

Good call. I wasn't thinking straight when I wrote that at one this morning. What I meant to say was similar: If he's using a split tail, and you want to unclip the biner, you could still clip him into your own harness and then climb a foot or so until his weight was off his own biner. Does that make more sense?

Josh

I've been meanimg to ask about this for some time:

I seem to remember reading somewhere the recommendation *not* to perform a rescue using only your (the rescuer's) line. Also, all those I saw in the aerial rescue event at the Mid Atlantic Chapter International Society of Arboriculture (this past Spring) lowered themselves and the rescue dummy using both ropes.

Although I hope never to have to perform an aerial rescue (and seriously doubt my capability to even do one), it would be nice to know what to do.

Can someone address this? I'm sure that Robert (RescueMan), for one, certainly has the knowledge.

Comments?

Thanks!

The knot in the bridge is a left-over from the days when it was taught that cutting the climber's line is a good idea. The current protocols call for cutting the climber's line as a last resort. It's better to do as Maher recommended. Redundancy is the best.

I'd like to have people think about trigger-stations. These are places where an action is required. In the case of an AR if a rescuer needs to have a knot to show them the place to cut then they aren't skilled enough to do the rescue. They should be rejected or trained better.

This thinking is like the drunk driver who is racing down the road. He knows he's drunk but figures that the cops won't notice his speed or lane changes if he signals all of the lane changes. Better to have a more clear head. Drunk driving has severe consequences. So does cutting ropes.

There are safer tools than knives for cutting ropes. Side cutters work really well. The hook knives that are used to cut seat belts also work. With all of the movement in an AR I would dread the idea of a sharp blade moving around. Too likely to have someone get hurt worse.

Has anyone ever had to do a real AR?

Tom

Do you use real people for practising AR or rescue dummies?

Do you realize that more people have been killed practicing AR than really performing?

What are your procedures for moving a patient? Do you put on a collar? What if they're injured?

The whole notion that we NEED to get a patient to the ground needs to be thought through more thorougly. If there is a car wreck would anyone move a patient without direction and assistance from EMS personnel?

What are your protocols for doing an AR near charged lines?

Do you have a pre-installed access line in every tree? Doing this simple thing would go a long way in expediting a rescue. Even just having a throwline installed would save LOTS of time.

Tom