Why is tree climbing not mainstream?

Some say there is not enough written material out there. There was my humble methods booklet for years, then Dick Flowers booklet, then Climbers Companion. I don’t think that is it.

I used to think it was a publicity problem. There has been lots of big name publicity. I don’t think that is it.

Maybe tree climbing is too new. Mountain climbing and rock climbing have been around for over a century as well as caving. Techniques have evolved with both of these mediums and there are some big organizations that back them.

There has NOT been publicized deaths or rescue events around tree climbing yet. There has been with caving and mountain climbing though. Maybe the allure of the “extreme” is there to capture the younger climbers. I really don’t know.

I like the Bozo filter idea. There is not a lot of room for puffed egos in recreational tree climbing. Rock climbers have come to my school and done a self inflation job about their rock climbing prowess and everyone ignored them. Other tree climbers were just not interested in the “peacock feather display.”

Anyone else have a theory? Maybe we need some big commercial enterprise to throw their weight into the issue. After all, this is a consumer nation. And… for better or worse…the whole world IS watching us.

I think it's hard. That goes into the Bozo filter we were talking about.

Also, rock is strong, it makes sense to climb it. To many (myself included when I first started climbing) I saw the branches of a tree as "not strong enough." I remember always learning in rock climbing only to tie in around the trunk of a tree.

To tie in at the tippy top might seem ludicrous to some! It sure seemed sketchy to me.

love
nick, who still likes tying in to stout branches.

Looking back, I don’t get why I would put up with the abrasive wounds and bruises I got from rock climbing. My hands were always cut up, nicked, and often bleeding from climbing. Yet I would go back again and again. For me, it never occurred to climb trees with a rope. They didn’t pose that severe of a challenge, I guess.

When you are young, it never seems you can get hurt. It always happened to someone else. Do you remember that “Mission Impossible” music they used to play on TV? I would actually run that audio in my head to override any fear I should have been experiencing before a rock climb. I wonder if they play that kind of music over in Iraq. It certainly would be a good theme piece, if only for the title alone.

Though we share in technical rope work with other groups like rock climbers, I'm beginning to believe that each adventure group has an unique cast of characters. I have zero aspirations to crawl on my belly for a half mile in a cave then rappel. The peak of my winter adventure is shoveling snow while others spend days traversing a mountain. I would top-rope a single pitch cliff, but I have no desire of lead-climbing for hours or even 5 minutes. Amazingly people climb-on in spite of the numerous documented tragedies. Perhaps taking life to a perceived edge is seductive for them. For sure that's not me. When I look at the people that I personally know in these groups, they desire challenge with risk.

I regard recreational tree climbing as being new and as having a mainstream potential. Like swimming, skill has to be developed to control risk. If you think about the depth of water and how easily your lungs could be filled with it. swimming is a dangerous activity. It's a resolved risk. The pitfalls are understood and an incredible depth of detail exists on how to safely swim water with speed and distance. The easiest job is to life guard at a swim meet (you're eyeballs will rot with boredom though). The risk of swimming is culturally accepted, and it deservingly exists mainstream. Unlike the above mentioned adventurers, swimmers don't push to the edge of drowning.

Recreational tree climbing is in its enfancy and doesn't have cultural acceptance. I stopped climbing for a tree crew in 1980. Now returning back to tree climbing for recreation, the advancements are stunning. The margin of safety gained has to be at least 5-fold. I'd rather be on a rope than a ladder. I personally have met several peole with life altering falls from ladders. One such person extended a kind word of caution when seeing me climb my front yard tree. People view a ladder as a safer access to height. In reality, ladder work has more poorly understood risks than recreational tree climbing. Dangling in the air doesn't equate to danger.

Time will take recreational tree climbing mainstream. The question becomes what strategies will drive it there more efficiently. More Waffle Houses?

Regards,
JimK

I like waffle houses!

I have a list of all the waffle houses in my pda! You never know when you're gonna need that information.

love
nick

I have often thought about using controversy to bump up the publicity campaign. It would probably be something like; a climber in a park, gets noticed, won’t come down, press shows up (called), and climber comes down and gets busted. This kind of set up worked quite well here during tree protection actions with developers.

My concern about this kind of tactic is branding. It would create a public sentiment of “tree climbers are characters that refuse to come out of trees and get busted.” I am just not sure it is a good publicity idea for the long run.

You guys are pro-climbers.
You look at this subject in a different light than the “average Joe” sitting on his couch watching TV (as is my case).

To us average Joe types, rock climbing is rooted in mountain climbing, mountain climbing is rooted in climbing expeditions, and expeditions are the kind of stuff that the History Channel could do a two hour special on.
Tree climbing on the other hand is looked at by the average Joe as the stuff municipal arborists do, hardly an adventure. Heck, even kids do it.

In my line of work I can hang off a hundred foot tower over energized power lines and be little more than annoyed with having to climb, yet when I’m up in a tree, even at a mere 30 feet, I cant help but feel wonderful. (so why is that?)

Also... This single sentence by JimK speaks volumes about how the public looks at things. “In reality, ladder work has more poorly understood risks than recreational tree climbing. Dangling in the air doesn't equate to danger.”

I certainly agree that "scofflaw" publicity is to be avoided. Maybe altruistic lawbreaking (e.g., treesitting to "save the forest") can be acceptable, though, and would create a "good" image.

But I have to wonder about this thread--in fact, I have been wondering about it. Why would we want publicity? What would it be for--what would be its purpose?

This thread started with wondering why there is "not enough written material out there." Well, for example, there is a TON of written material about ham radio, but there seems to be little publicity about it. About the only thing most people "know" about ham radio operators is (a) that they mess up your TV reception or (b) that they are the same thing as CBers. . . except when a hurricane comes through and they are the only mode of communications with the outside world and even are necessary to assist rescue, law, etc. agencies communicate with each other. Then the governor signs a proclamation thanking them for their "extraordinary, necessary, and tireless service" after which the perception of hams again reverts to being weird geeks who mess up your TV.

I don't see any correlation between publicity and written material.

Before asking why we don't have enough publicity, I think we should ask what we want the future of recreational tree climbing to be. The "bozo filter" indeed will keep many undesirables away, but the (even small) percentage of them who make even one climb have the strong probability of causing much damage.

Many things are "self selecting"--one is involved in them simply because that is what they do. They don't ask for it or lobby for it--they just do it. Of course, if one never is exposed to the idea (or joys) of tree climbing, there probably is much less chance that they will come up with the idea on their own.

Publicity: we probably want some of it, but we had better be sure what its specific purpose is before going after it.

Do we want to climb in undisturbed peace? That would require a different type of publicity (maybe none at all) from the type that would foster a business that would yield a good income. Different priorities. Nothing wrong with either. But they're different.

---

Having reviewed what I wrote, there are several things I probably should change, but I'll leave them for others to comment about--more of that "controversy" we've been discussing.

and too dangerous to contemplate doing unless they are trained by tree-climbing Zen masters who are certified experts! No names needed here. I think it's a PR problem.
This needs to be an open,welcoming sport to all of those who show interest. I found my way into the trees and have done so safely for a few years now -all on info. that I have found on the web and in books. So shoot me.
-Carlton:D
PS. Merry Christmas Everybody!

Hey, I’m self taught too. That was in my tree work beginnings in 1978. I do not personally have a problem with being self taught. I know, I know. There have been conversations here about being self taught and the need for training etc., etc. I feel training is a fast track to learning. You get most of what you need in a couple of days under supervision (which is helpful if you are not accustomed to heights).

You can indeed learn this craft out of books or on the net. It does involve more of a trail (and hopefully not error) approach. Teaching others how to climb is a different ball game entirely.

Does this message board occur for you as elitist or rocket ship science? Are the conversations here over complicated and technical? Do you not feel safe and comfortable to converse whatever you like here? Now THAT would be some useful information to me.

JimK,
I quoted you in my last post as a pro. Your statements about ladder usage are right on the mark. I agree totally. <in case I was misunderstood there>

Additionally… the quote ”Publicity: we probably want some of it, but we had better be sure what its specific purpose is before going after it.”
I can understand the publicity interests of lets say Treeman or Abram. They provide a unique service which would be directly impacted in a positive way. But those that climb for solitude or only in a quiet group may be a tad apprehensive about attaining fad status here. Should be interesting...

Part of me wants to see mainstream up in the trees. I sort of joke with people when I say it is my intention to return the human race back to the trees. I know the good things tree climbing does for me and I see at the school the good things it does for other people.

However, I sometimes cringe at the idea of lots of folks up in the trees. Undisturbed peace. It is getting harder to find those spots these days in an urban setting. But maybe undisturbed peace is just a state of mind. I’ll have to ask a Zen follower about this the next time I can locate one.

Tree climbing instructors now are trying to figure out how to maintain a modest living by what they do best and love most. You are right, it is a different slant to this issue.

But back to topic. Publicity has always come to us. We (TCI) does not hunt it out or solicit it. The volume of traffic that comes to this site is STAGERING. Even my webmaster was blown away when he looked at the stats.

I know by the stats that the message board is watched worldwide; by many thousands of people each month (and lots of return visits as well). I wish they would be more interactive and converse more. But I also know people are shy- especially the new climbers.

I can put myself in Carlton’s shoes. I too “think” I do pretty darn good DRT without the rocket science that is sometimes inferred here.

Conversely, experience has taught me that after any course of instruction, I then realize how much I didn’t really know. There is no doubt that I will make the trek to Georgia and take a suggested tree climbing course. And I will make it a point to report back here and check in with fellow member Carlton (as I can see his point). I will be frank with my evaluation. I’ll let you know how much of it was FUN vs. Rocket Science.

<Off topic: yes. Shy newbie: hardly>

We have to work at getting it in the mainstream. I know the newsletter was just out and I have a printed copy of it and one on the puter somewhere, but where did we send to, just members? Should we get it out to the public some way, to the media to city park and rec people to state and national park people? How often do we wait for something to happen.
I have seen some of the newsreels and the magazine layouts. I have even seen some photos on the AP wire of tree climbers. I work at a newspaper. But do we invite those people out again and again. It will take us all to get it there.

And that is another question, how far DO WE WANT it in the mainstream.

Like Larry the Cable guy said
Guns don't kill people,
husbands who come home early do!!!

We will at some point have the ones that ruin it for many.

Maybe we should be working WITH the parks people to get something we can get started, maybe not classes but at the art in the park we can do demo's, or maybe we can get the parks to helps us be able to climb in the parks and keep help keep the ones that cause black eyes to RTC further in the woods:-)

I have jabbed Peter in the ribs a few times about getting a magazine started. They have them for kite flyers and metal detectors. I do both.

We need to get it there if we want it. Tim K, tengu, showed me his Halloween flyer did we invite the TV. newspaper or radio out to an awsome event. Even if they come out once a year and we invite them 40 times we are still on the way up:-)

So we should take upon ourselves to get it out more IF we want it there.

I took some park and rec people out to show them RTC, both were rock climbers. and they climbed. It will help to get the point across that we are safe AND responsable.

okay nuf said
Merry Christmas

I certainly don't think I know it all! I'd even love to take a "real"
course in treeclimbing someday. I just wanted to say that it
isn't rocket science, and that I've been climbing well enough
to have been actually making real money in the tree-trimming
biz. I think it can be picked -up by the layman from info. on the web and in books. I don't think this self-instruction should
be" pooh-poohed ". If this is to be a mainstream sport one day, we must not allow it to be "elitist."
Be careful,be safe,and have fun!
Merry Christmas Everybody!
-Carlton