Tree camping, sleep in harness?

Took my Black Diamond Portaledge for it's first all-night run in a tree last night. Hardly slept at all. Some of it was noise (urban environment), but much was also discomfort from sleeping in my saddle (NT Tengu, the least bulky of the ones I have).

For you seasoned tree campers:

Do you always sleep in a harness?

I'm not sure how much redundancy to build into my sleeping platform. The \"tent\" is a single anchor, but it was web-slinged hitched to two separate large branches (photos below). Is it really necessary to also harness myself in? The Portaledge is like a tent and the fly (cover) is so tightly sealed (wraps underneath) you couldn't roll out if you tried. You have to unzip the strong doors to get out. Being a single anchor (high above) it's not going to roll (but it does sway like crazy, even with some anchoring).

I tend to always play it as safe as possible, but I wonder if at some point it's just irrational, especially if it interferes so much with sleep.

Also, on the sleeping question. If you do anchor in, shouldn't you use a screamer or dynamic line? Unless you have a tight connection, you're going to have 2-3 feet it seems of fall before a very strong jerk at the end. Do you run the rope out the middle of your sleeping bag, or slack it up by the top of the bag?

I'm interested in any tips or advice from people who do this a lot. I have a tree boat as well but have only slept at low altitudes on that, so I haven't needed a tie-in.

Thanks!

(on the anchor picture, the pulley/rope is just to raise and lower the portaledge, it's not bearing any weight)

Pictures of the portaledge and the anchor
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http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3935/solstice0903s.jpg

Hmmm... is a fall arrest full-body harness any more comfortable?

Maybe you could take a rock climbing harness with you for overnight stays (the harness equivalent to pyjamas?)

Michael

The rock climbing harness is a good suggestion. I do have one and it's very light and non-bulky, EXCEPT it has hard plastic biner loops coming out from 4 sides. I thought about clipping them off, but it would basically make that harness not work for anything but sleeping.

When I'm feeling particularly princess like (remember the Princess and the Pea?) I wear a really basic ABC climb harness, which has no gear loops at all under my ness saddle. Once in the tree I change out of one harness into another, always staying tied in (this is not optional, it's imperative) and promptly fall asleep.

As far as coming off your climb line, and only staying on a lanyard, I'd advise against it. One at least one occassion I was awoken by my bladder; and it was an emergency situation, bailing was required to prevent flooding my hammock. Consider that you'll be operating in the dark most likely, you really want to be on your line. One thing you should do though is haul up all your line and tie it off. The weight of the line hanging can feel like it's pulling you out of the bed, which has kept me up in the past.

Are you using a sleeping pad? It makes a huge difference too, since I began using one I've been sleeping in my ness saddle, gear loops and everything.

Davej wrote:

Hmmm... is a fall arrest full-body harness any more comfortable?

No way, dorsal loop would be a major ouch.

Wow, that's a lot of rigging. I guess you are hauling it up assembled. I don't guess you'll be camping in the wild like that very often?

If I'm going to climb up to go to sleep I'll wear an NT Basic harness, it's comfortable to sleep in.

If I'm on an expedition style climb and am spending a long time the tree before or after bedtime I wear my NT Tengu, just take all the stuff off the harness, biners etc.

If I can rig a rope that will reach the ground I like to sleep with an SRT connection, put a Grigri on the rope and lock it off using the tail of the rope tied above the Grigri. To go to bed I climb up with a Yoyo system, it's great to climb with bare feet.

The slack problem: I like to have some slack so I can rollover during the night. The way I look at it, it's highly unlikely that I'm going to fall out of the treeboat. If it happened I'd rather get a 2 foot drop and jolt than fall to the ground.

I agree with Icabod, stay tied in even if you're on a portaledge. There are many possible reasons that you might have to make a quick escape during the night (lightning, high winds etc.) Obviously there's the safety factor in case you \"sleepwalk\" but based on experience I believe it's a very low probability. I've never heard a report about a technical tree climber falling out of a portaledge or NT treeboat, tethered or untethered.
-moss

Get a skinny rock climbing harness and wear it under your Ness Saddle. That way you won't have to face safety embarrassment with moments of off-rope clippings. You just slip out of the ascending saddle and relax in a less bulky safety harness. Staying tied in with a retreat rope is good practice- especially if your area experiences lightning storms.

Oh yes. Practice peeing into a bottle with saddle on. It is a most useful skill best practiced low : not so near rooftops and high use areas.

So tell us about the Black Diamond Portaledge. Is it really easy to setup while aloft (a marketing point I hear) or is it a bit of a hassle- like with my A-5 double. Maybe you can convince me to stop lusting after this purchase and prolong my marriage possibilities.

Sound sleep aloft never is as deep as normal sleeping habit routines. My hearing is amplified while sleeping aloft. Having a fetish for sound identification makes sleep even more illusive for me personally. My wife wants me to quit trying to call in owls to my treetop. She says it is bad birding form much akin to \"bird harassment\". Heck- I just want to talk to a local while stretched out in the wee hours.

Let us know how you are cocking along.

Great tips, thanks everyone. I will definitely be incorporating your advice into my next outing. I stayed tied in all night with a Petzl I'D, but it was a lot of clunking whenever I rolled over.

The portaledge packs in at about 25 lbs without the fly, which is probably another 5 lbs. It's nothing I'd want to lug too far away from the car.

Set up has been a little tough with just one person, but doable. I set it up on the ground and hauled it aloft on a pulley, but given enough space it could be done aloft, especially if there were two people.

There were a couple idiosyncrasies with the portaloft compared to the tree boat. Since it's hanging on a single point about 6 feet off the floor, and you're the heaviest thing in it, you don't so much move around in it, but rather you move it around you. It's a weird sensation. On the edges, if you don't have it really secured down on the corners, it'll tilt up as your weight moves to the edge. I had it gently tethered to the tree, but it swayed all night whenever I moved. The next day I had that feeling you get when you've been on a boat all day, that things were gently rolling on the ground.

Anyway, the double portaledge and fly is a large expense, but it looks like it'll last a long time. The fly is airtight and well designed, and could be used as it's designed in a snowstorm or hard rain. I will probably not be taking it way up into a tree too often, but it makes a great tent any place you have trees. All you need is an anchor point 6+ feet off the ground and you have a double-sized tent no matter what condition the ground is in. I plan to use it to just camp as well for the next tree stay.

On second thought, you can tether yourself to a short leash with your escape rope nearby. Sewn webbing lies flat if you roll over on it.

Here's a thought. I once trained for tree sitting using the Portaledge in my back yard. I set a false anchor up in a tree (rope, figure 8 on bight, and micro pulley) and raised the anchor with rope running through pulley to hoist the Portaledge. Every night I would make up my bed real neat, hoist it aloft, tie it off, and then climb up to a made up bed. I did this this every night for a few weeks to acclimate myself for the impending action. If it was going to storm, I'd put up the fly. Great training! The tree sit went off splendid too. I camped out in the Georgia state co-champion white oak tree and the court said the school district was making unlawful use of the land.

treeman wrote:

My wife wants me to quit trying to call in owls to my treetop.

Peter, if I didn't know Patty so well I'd say that was just a wife trying to prevent you having a \"Hoot\".

There I go causing trouble again! You should thank her actually, after getting a extreme closeup of those talons on the baby I rescued, I've stoped trying to call them in!

My preference is to use a PL for tree camping because I can NOT sleep in a TB without getting a tweaked back...ouch!

My PL has a single tie in loop and I don't back up the connection. I do tie off the corners so that I don't rotate around. That makes me tree-sick...urrrpppp...

For sleeping I use a system like others. Before ascending I put on my mountaineering harness. the backpad is a bit wider and the leg loops are 2\" webbing so it's OK to sit in as opposed to a rock climbing harness. Then, I put my regular tree climbing harness over the top for ascending/climbing/setting up camp.

Somewhere nearby I'll choke a long webbing loop to a bombproof anchor. Then I girth hitch a biner to this loop. Another webbing loop is attached to the front of my mountaineering harness. Then I shed my tree harness. Since I SRT my descent system is right at hand. Be sure to tie a stopper knot or lock off to whatever descent system you use. This will force you to be awake before you descend. The rope makes as straight a route to the ground and doesn't go over or around limbs if possible.

All of the webbing loops are taped or sewn shut so that they aren't any loops to hang myself in.

The webbing loop comes up out of my sleeping bag and clips to the biner.

My headlamp is hung from a cord at the top of the PL apex. In case of a quick exit I can get into the descender and to the ground quite quickly.

So far...knock on wood...the only reason to get up at night is to pee. If my camp is perfect I've setup over a limb that I can step out onto, like a porch. Using a pee bottle inside a sleeping bag is something that I tried years ago when I was winter camping at sub zero weather. A tiny dribble on the bag made a foul odor until I was able to wash it...try that in sub zero weather. Now, everything goes on outside the bag and over the edge of the ledge.

When I tree camp I don't sleep real sound. It seems like I wake up every hour or so to enjoy the moon arcing across the sky or the new sounds. Even so, I sleep very well and I'm rested in the morning.

Call the owls, Peter, if you are good enough to bring them in it's a complement to you. Plus, how do we know, it will probably lead to some funny stories for the owls to retell to their...uh, pride, gaggle, murder...what is a 'flock' of owls???