Making a bark saver w/rope without splicing

After hanging one of my homemade bark savers (and my climbing line) this morning on a not very tight crotch I think I need a redesign. My current device is a length of 11mm rope with a double noose knot (aka fishermans knot) on each end. I'm using 'biners instead of rings. Installs fine, works great but one of the slip knots hung the tail end of the saver on a small but very tenacious bit of bark in the crotch when I was taking it down. Removable by rethrowing a line and pulling the rope back through the crotch in the other direction but a pain in the butt.

I'm thinking that I could make a continuous loop similar to a footloop out of 11mm rope, using the double fishermans knot as shown in Jepson's to close the loop. Then tape the knots to make them more smooth for going through the crotch, and make them more secure. For ring attachment either tape or whip wrap the ends to create a tight loop for the biners (or rings).

So bearing in mind that I don't want to spend money right now on a ready-made false crotch and I have no splicing skill at the moment ... Any ideas on how to make a bark saver with rope without splicing? Does the design I proposed have any obvious flaws?

Thanks!
-moss

You're on the right track. But any way that you make a false crotch with knots will leave a glob that can hang up.

A cheap way to make one that is neater is to get a sewn webbing loop made from one inch tubular webbing from a mountaineering shop. YOu might find 5/8" Spectra loops too. You can either tape or hand sew a tight eye on the webbing to capture the large biner. I move the sewn splice close to that end so that the sewn eye is just a little ways from the splice. Then you can either sew or tape another eye on the other end. Be sure to sew or tape the webbing flat too. Since the sewing you're doing doesn't have any support needs you don't need to be concerned with strength. Using a speedy stitcher or sewing machine is fine. You could probably get a shoe repair shop to sew it for a couple of bucks.

New Tribe makes false crotches out of webbing. Their eyes are large but I'll bet they would sew them down for a slip fit on a biner. That keeps the biners from flopping around so much when you set/retrieve them.

The webbing FCs that I use are four feet miniumum.

Here's an alternative bark saver that I made last night:

Braided bark saver

It's made with two lengths of 11mm Blaze because I didn't have a long enough piece to do it with one. I made a shorter version with one length of rope.

It's tough as nails, probably overkill 'cause it's a little heavy. The length is 66" from loop-to-loop. There are no knots (well the whole thing is a knot). The loop to braid transition is nice and smooth so it should slide through a crotch pretty well.

There is a non-structural splice on one braid strand in the center of the saver. It's pretty secure since the braids create so much friction in the length of the saver. The strength of that section of the saver is 2x 11mm instead of 3x if a single length of rope was used.

Tom's suggestion to make a saver from webbing makes a lot of sense, I'll see what my local climbing store has to offer.
-moss

Moss,

That's sure a nice looking false crotch.

If I understand what you're saying, the ends of the ropes aren't spliced together. Is that right? you're relying on the friction of the braids to secure the whole works. This could have merit, but without some testing I'm leary. How do you secure the ends? Stitching the ends would add a lot. Putting in some stitching at regular intervals would be a good idea too.

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Moss,

If I understand what you're saying, the ends of the ropes aren't spliced together. Is that right?

Yes, theoretically there would be no splicing.. The end loops are a continuous part of the entire rope.

The ends of the rope are located and taped at the loops after being braided the entire length of the saver, so even with my bogus splice on one of 3 strands in the center of the saver the sucker is strong. The rope ends are hot cut at an angle so there's a smooth transition from the loop to the braid.

The weakest point is the single strand of rope at each end loop. I will test it low of course.

How about some old garden hose for a friction saver. Can that damage my rope.
I also am concerned about my "Fly". One of the product descriptions I read said that it is like a static kernmantel. Can it still be used dynamically for DdRT climbs?

You guys are a real help with this board by the way. Thanx Joe

Originally posted by joesoup
How about some old garden hose for a friction saver. Can that damage my rope.

I'll address the garden hose. I tried it, it more or less works (mostly less) but it doesn't like to stay in the crotch, runs down the rope and it has the potential to melt from friction and gunge up your rope. When you're practicing and going slow you can get away without using a bark saver for now, especially if you're on a thicker bark tree like an oak etc.

Someone mentioned in another thread having a local shoemaker or shoe repair person sew up a leather rope saver (basically a leather tube made from thick leather).
-moss

joesoup- Yes, you can use Fly as if it were a normal arborist line....because it is.

love
nick

I rebuilt my braided false crotch using a single piece of rope. It tested well for strength. I'm rejecting it as impractical because it's too much weight compared to a typical bark saver. Anyway if you're interested in playing with it here's how it's made from a single piece of rope.

Start braiding on one end and continue until it's done. The ends are bound with electrical tape but it could be done w/whipping twine. Before finishing off the binding at the loops I cut the two free ends at an angle to make a smoother transition from the loop to the braid.



-moss

Moss,
Outstanding graphics as a clarification of your device.
Thanks for doing that!

Moss, when you say, "it tested well for strength" can you tell us more about that? How'd you test it?

It just looks a little sketchy to me. Your survival in the tree relies entirely on the electrical tape not ripping off. Don't mean to be a party pooper, but I don't like the looks of the braided friction saver.

love
nick

Stitch the ends loops (rather than tape) and perhaps sew a thimble in at each end.

(2 cents applied)

Originally posted by Electrojake
Stitch the ends loops (rather than tape) and perhaps sew a thimble in at each end.

(2 cents applied)

I was thinking the same thing. I guess that makes this a 4 cent idea!

A few whippings on each side would be much better. A properly seized eye can approach full strength of the rope.

love
nick

Originally posted by NickfromWI....It just looks a little sketchy to me. Your survival in the tree relies entirely on the electrical tape not ripping off. Don't mean to be a party pooper, but I don't like the looks of the braided friction saver.

No prob Nick, it's just an idea I tried out. I tested it low by putting it over a branch and put myself and a rope on it ('biners through the loops). It was very sturdy. I didn't try picking up a car or anything

The deal is that there is so much friction because both "legs" of each loop are braided the length of the device. So the tape acts more to hold things in place as opposed to actually holding the weight of the climber. for instance I tested it with the tape off to see what would happen. It fails slowly as the braid gradually unravels, gives you enough time to review your life and say a prayer or two

It would make sense to whip over the tape and/or stitch and add thimbles as Electrojake mentioned or some other combination of whipping and stitching without tape, so that that part wouldn't get damaged during installation in the crotch.

I'm not recommending that anyone actually climb on it just putting it out there to be scutinized. As I said earlier I'm rejecting it as unpractical since it can be done much lighter and less bulky through traditional construction methods (splicing rope, sewing webbing etc.),
-moss

Yeah but I still gotta’ admit…
The graphics you included with your post are sweet!