Harness's

i have ben wanting to experimenting with controlled free-falls using trees as a base. i was wondering what is the difference between harness's like the new tribe progear harness (witch i have) and the petzl vario v2 bod harness am i wrong to think that i cant go upside down in the NT and what are the pro's to having a full body posed to not having one in a BIG fall. are there different tie in points? what makes them safer thanks for all your help spiritsk8
Controlled Freefall

I don't know of any tree species or tree structure that has the right clearance for controlled free fall. First you're lacking the height unless you get into a redwood or very big doug fir and then you have the center spar to contend with. It will hurt quite a bit if not kill you on impact. Doesn't matter how dynamic your system is. Note that people are not bungy jumping out of trees, there isn't enough clearance.

For controlled free fall you need enough room (vertical drop and clear horizontal swing) so the dynamic rope can catch and then absorb your fall and swing. Tree structure doesn't provide this the way geologic features or man-made structures can. The other problem is that the shock load and stress on the supporting tree is introducing variables not found on rock or steel structures.

I doubt you're going to find any tree climber who'll support the idea of doing this. There are enough ways to get into trouble in a tree as it is without looking for it.

It's probably too obvious to say but it must be said: Dan Osman the leading practitioner of controlled free fall died on a jump and left his wife and kids behind.
-moss

If you want some thrills first become very competent as a technical tree climber and then explore executing in-tree swings and then tree-to-tree swings. After you master that your understanding of what being in a tree is all about may take you in a completely different and unexpected direction.
-moss

My background is in vertical rescue - mostly rock/high angle. The obvious choice here, for a harness, is a full bod type harness due to it's added safety if one were to become accidentally inverted. I personally use a Yates technical rescue harness.

My question is, are their any DISadvantages to using a harness like this for tree climbing?

Baker wrote:

My background is in vertical rescue - mostly rock/high angle. The obvious choice here, for a harness, is a full bod type harness due to it's added safety if one were to become accidentally inverted. I personally use a Yates technical rescue harness.

My question is, are their any DISadvantages to using a harness like this for tree climbing?

First off, you can invert in an NT harness. It wants to hold you in a slightly reclining off vertical position but you can easily invert. If the harness belt is worn and adjusted properly it cinches the torso above the hips, you can't fall out inverted.

For tree climbing it's optimal to have your climbing rope anchored on your harness as low on your body as is practical with the particular harness. If the attachment point is too high relative to your torso and arm length it will become awkward and inefficient to work with your friction hitch ascending or descending.

In technical tree climbing you're always under rope tension or with very little slack in the rope so there is no fall potential, the concerns are different than in a high angle rescue scenario. If you take a big fall it means you've detached from your system or the TIP has blown out, in that case it doesn't matter what kind of harness you're wearing.

There is increasing swing potential in tree climbing as you climb away from the vertical plane of your TIP. Even then there isn't shock loading on the harness, there is potential impact on a branch or the trunk during an uncontrolled swing back towards the vertical plane of the TIP.

I don't know if that answers your question but it might give you enough info to do so.

The only other question I have to determine harness suitability for tree climbing is: Is it comfortable for the long hang times common in tree climbing? Tree climbing quickly loses the enjoyment factor when your legs go numb.
-moss

Thanks. Actually I would be connecting to the lower (waist) ring on the harness anyway. The only thing that makes a full bod harness \"safer\" in the eyes of the govt, are the shoulder straps. Those can be removed from my harness if they become a problem.

I am considering a seat board - any thoughts on that?

Edit:
Forget that rescue harness! It has it's place in it's intended use. For trees, I just purchased a NT Tengo. Ahhhhh!

I'm going to use it for rescue instruction as well. I often end up hanging alongside students for long peroids of time, giving tips and \"watching\" them. This is really the way to go.

Baker wrote:

Thanks. Actually I would be connecting to the lower (waist) ring on the harness anyway. The only thing that makes a full bod harness \"safer\" in the eyes of the govt, are the shoulder straps. Those can be removed from my harness if they become a problem.

I am considering a seat board - any thoughts on that?

The best thing about shoulder straps for me would be to keep my harness from sliding to my ankles from too much gear hung on it when I'm walking around on the ground.

A seat board is a stiffer version of the butt strap used in some arborist harness designs. Should work fine, not as comfortable as using a purpose designed arborist harness. The seat board is going to reduce your mobility in the tree and could be awkward when you're trying to climb through a tight space, which happens a lot in tree climbing. Streamlined and \"soft support\" goes a long way in a tree climbing harness.

You can tree climb in any rated harness but you quickly find out why there are dedicated harnesses designed for tree climbing.
-moss

spiritsk8
If I remember well Mr Osman got killed a couple of years back or so doing one of his jumps! The video is also on line. Not recomeneded to jump from a tree - the hit against the trunk will definitely get you regardless of what harness you wear as explained by Moss!