Beer Knot

Is anyone using the webbing loop (Beer knot) as shown on page 93 of the 'Companion?


This one is very small, although I could see using this knot in a longer length of webbing to use in a W3P2 configuration for SRT
I really like how clean the finished product comes out.

In the photo, the hidden end of the webbing is indicated by the point of the pen. One of the other techs on my team wondered of there would be a strength/abrasion advantage to making the inserted part of the sling longer. That is, what if the whole sling were doubled, one piece inside the other for the entire length of the loop?

Thoughts?

I have a sling that I carry around that I tied with the Beer Knot. Sort of...

It's 1\" webbing. Not Tubular. That I made a double loop with, let the ends overlap about 9\" and worked an overhand knot over top of the area that was 3 thick.

Wish I had a better camera, I'd post a pic.

I don't trust this sling with my life, because it was a used find left over from a broken tie down. It is however very handy for most things. I do use it as a foot step, or hand hold, redirect, etc...

Even in this application, the beer knot concept came out much cleaner than a water knot.

Carl

A couple of questions for you to ponder.

The sling is rated to some big amount like 3000 or more pounds. The knot reduces the strength by some amount but you still have a very strong sling so my question is:
Why are you concerned about the safety of this sling as a life support unit? I seen climbers hanging themselves from slings like this almost every day in work or REC conditions.



If the sling is in good (rated)condition and the knot is properly tied why is there a need to double up it twice?

Simply for conversation. Not wondering about the webbing itself. Just asking if anyone ties slings this way, or with the traditional water knot.

I also use slings almost every day, and thought this a cleaner alternative to the two-tailed water knot.

The book says the Beer knot retains 80 percent of the webbing's strength. That's a pretty good ratio. Better than the water knot.

The thing I find a bit spooky about the beer knot is the hidden section of webbing that cannot be inspected.

I thought the same thing, Dave. But it's really easy to inspect the hidden tail by touch. Also, according to some online sources, slippage is not an issue. This knot actually holds better than a standard water knot. As a matter of fact, it's considered by some to be permanent Knot. Very difficult to undo after it's been loaded.

I've used the Beer Knot for years. The first couple that I tied weren't dressed real well because the buried tail rolled while I was tieing.

Using 1\" tubular webbing I made up many slings to be used for rigging branches, etc. in arbo work. Buying a spool of webbing and making my own slings was a lot cheaper than buying sewn slings. The knot wasn't any more difficult to deal with than the sewn overlap.

Why would the buried tail need to be inspected? If there were damage the outer would be visible. If there's a concern about the knot creeping just measure the amount of tail in the bury. Or, take some thread and throw a couple of lock stitches in.

I like the way you think, Tom.

So what is the real niche for strap webbing slings? Where is webbing more appropriate than rope?

Webbing:

Less bulk
Bartack splice is more fair, beer knot is sorta fair
Less weight
Higher cost

Rope:

Bulkier
Splicing is complicated/expensive
Knots are bulky
Heavier
Cheaper generally, I'll make up rope slings from pieces of rope that still have life in them.

Tom Dunlap wrote:

Rope:

Cheaper generally, I'll make up rope slings from pieces of rope that still have life in them.

Well, I think 2-inch 30kN nylon webbing is about 60 cents a foot, which is about the same price as cheap (Arbor-Plex) rope. I've seen 2-inch webbing for as little as 30 cents/ft.

Davej wrote:

So what is the real niche for strap webbing slings? Where is webbing more appropriate than rope?

Ahh webbing. There are so many uses. Some (most) of which can be done with rope, but webbing just makes things easier sometimes. For instance, I'd rather wrap a pre-tied webbing sling around a tree trunk W3P2 (wrap three, pull two) for an SRT anchor, than tie a hitch. It saves time, wear on the rope, and is softer and more forgiving on the tree. Webbing packs MUCH smaller than rope too.

Another check mark in webbing's \"plus\" column is that you can buy it by the foot. I'd bet there aren't too many places that will sell you 7 feet of Arbor-plex to make a short sling.

Most rescue techs keep 10 -15 pieces of 1\" webbing (various lengths - 10 to 20 feet) in our gear bags for all kinds of reasons. Quick anchors, dog muzzles and leashes, horse bridles, improvised ascenders, rescue basket tie-ins, pick-off straps, edge safety straps, emergency victim harnesses (both hip and chest), anchor back-ups, ground anchors (used with steel pickets driven into the ground when there are no bomber natural anchors), girth hitched around a tree - webbing loops make great stand-ins, and many more things.

One of my favorite webbing tricks, for SRT, is to slip a 2-3 foot length of webbing OVER my 7/16 static rope to act as an abrasion protector at the crotch or limb. Works beautifully and keeps your rope cleaner too. Install it just like you would a house sleeve - with just a bit more jiggling/flipping to get it over the limb.

Just make sure you know what you're buying. Ask to see the spool. Make sure the webbing is RATED and certified for climbing/life safety.

Honest, I don't sell webbing, I just use it... a lot.

I was chatting with a retired smokejumper/firefighter who described the \"normal\" practice of jumping from an airplane, spearing his chute (intentionally) on the top of an old growth Douglas Fir and rappelling out of the tree on a length of webbing which had been rolled up in a pocket. Why webbing? It was much more compact per length than rope.

Webbing slings are very handy for making quick footholds (girthed) on upward angled limb walks, for hanging gear when you're tree camping, for controlling a smallish limb when you're trimming, for a quick temporary tie-in/backup and everything mentioned by Baker and Tom. As mentioned, the compactness of webbing is its main virtue.
-moss

moss wrote:

...and rappelling out of the tree on a length of webbing

I'd guess webbing isn't too good for climbing up, right?

I also wonder whether the Beer knot would be a little annoying for someone looking for the ultimate in compactness?

Davej wrote:

moss wrote:

...and rappelling out of the tree on a length of webbing

I'd guess webbing isn't too good for climbing up, right?

I also wonder whether the Beer knot would be a little annoying for someone looking for the ultimate in compactness?

Could be done in an emergency but why use it for tree climbing when rope is so much more useful. Webbing fills in areas of tree climbing where it is better suited for the task.

We're not talking ultimate compactness, just more compact then rope for slings and SRT trunk anchors. For a web sling whether it' sewn or knotted won't make much difference for storage on your harness.
-moss