Ascenders that slide up most easily?

I think the question of how much rope length/weight is need below an ascender is a non-issue. It's such a small percentage of the climb to get past the first 5-10 feet where you have to tend the tail below the ascender. That's with a Pantin. With 1/2\" rope I think you're going to have to lightly hold the tail below any any handled ascender for a bit going up the rope. It's not really much of an inconvenience though.

On my brand spanking new Sterling HTP 10mm static rope it starts self tending almost immediately with a Pantin, it's magic rope.

I really like using the CMI Ultrascender for footloops on facilitated climbs, it's very easy to thumb the cam (shorter cam teeth than the Petzl Ascensions) and move the ascender down if the climber pushes it up into the Blake's Hitch. The ergonomics of the handle are not great but the smoothness of operation is very good. I assume that the CMI Rescuecenders are similarly smooth to thumb the cam for down climbing or other situations where you need to.

As Baker pointed out, there's absolutely no need to thumb the cam while ascending with any ascender, in fact thumbing the cam is a potential problem during ascent, especially climbing SRT. It's very disconcerting to push the ascender up and not have it grab because you're accidentally thumbing the cam. The first time it happened to me I think my heart skipped a beat. I place a biner across the cam release on my Petzl Acension so I won't accidentally thumb it during ascent.
-moss

moss wrote:

I think the question of how much rope length/weight is need below an ascender is a non-issue. It's such a small percentage of the climb

Well, I find fighting with my footloop Blakes to be a very annoying way to begin a climb. My hope is that an ascender with a thumb button will eliminate that, and then I might be able to stow the ascender and switch to single footlocking once I am high enough.

On my brand spanking new Sterling HTP 10mm static rope it starts self tending almost immediately with a Pantin, it's magic rope.

Ok now, please remind me what ascenders will do on really cheap rope? Initially I had no plans to use an ascender of any type.

I really like using the CMI Ultrascender for footloops on facilitated climbs, it's very easy to thumb the cam (shorter cam teeth than the Petzl Ascensions) and move the ascender down if the climber pushes it up into the Blake's Hitch.

I have not looked at the CMI.

As Baker pointed out, there's absolutely no need to thumb the cam while ascending with any ascender, in fact thumbing the cam is a potential problem during ascent

Well, that sort of brings up the question of whether I'd want to do this left handed or alternate the use of my right hand.

Davej wrote:

Well, I find fighting with my footloop Blakes to be a very annoying way to begin a climb. My hope is that an ascender with a thumb button will eliminate that, and then I might be able to stow the ascender and switch to single footlocking once I am high enough.

Hmmm, you'll still have to have to tend the tail with any ascender, it will be waaay easier to manage than a footloop attache dto the rope with a prusik knot. Do you want to thumb the cam while you're pushing the ascender up? If so I wouldn't advise doing that. It's not needed. More trouble than any very small advantage you might get get. Or are referring to the fact that most cammed ascender allow you to install and remove the ascender midline?

Something to consider is forget the ascender and double footlock the tail until you get high enough to self tend with a single footlock. That is how I climbed before getting a Pantin.

Davej wrote:

Ok now, please remind me what ascenders will do on really cheap rope? Initially I had no plans to use an ascender of any type.

An ascender will work on any rated static or semi-static climbing rope that meets the diameter specs for the ascender.

Davej wrote:
Well, that sort of brings up the question of whether I'd want to do this left handed or alternate the use of my right hand.

Whatever hand feels more comfortable, you can face the ascender either direction when used for a footloop. For SRT ascent it does make a difference, most climber's follow the accepted standard of Left ascender up top, right ascender down low (if you' reusing two ascenders). I'm a lefty but I still follow that convention. When the ascender is used for life support you want the cam release side facing in so left and right do matter.
-moss

moss wrote:

Hmmm, you'll still have to have to tend the tail with any ascender, it will be waaay easier to manage than a footloop attached to the rope with a prusik knot. Do you want to thumb the cam while you're pushing the ascender up? If so I wouldn't advise doing that. It's not needed. More trouble than any very small advantage you might get get. Or are referring to the fact that most cammed ascender allow you to install and remove the ascender midline?

Something to consider is forget the ascender and double footlock the tail until you get high enough to self tend with a single footlock. That is how I climbed before getting a Pantin.

Well, if I lift up on the (footloop) ascender and the rope doesn't feed, then yes, I'd want to thumb it. This is the advantage over the Pantin. I have had no luck with any footlocking close to the ground. Installing and removing midline is certainly a desirable feature, but I don't want to thumb the cam and accidentally have it lock open or come off the rope.

Davej wrote:

Well, if I lift up on the (footloop) ascender and the rope doesn't feed, then yes, I'd want to thumb it. This is the advantage over the Pantin. I have had no luck with any footlocking close to the ground. Installing and removing midline is certainly a desirable feature, but I don't want to thumb the cam and accidentally have it lock open or come off the rope.

Any reason why you can't put your hand on the tail of the rope just below the ascender when you lift it to advance it? It's a much easier motion than thumbing the cam while you lift.

Thumbing the cam won't make it come off the rope, freeing the ascender from the rope requires two distinct gestures, first moving the cam off the rope, then moving it further off the rope in a second motion to take the entire ascender off the rope. They're designed to be be difficult to remove so they won't come off accidentally, essentially a double locked system. You can't lock the cam open by thumbing it, it only stays open as long as your thumb pressure is on it, at least on the Petzl Ascension, probably true for the CMI's as well or they wouldn't have the great reputation for safety that they currently enjoy.

I would follow Baker's advice and try one in a store on any rope that's same or similar diameter to yours, 11mm would be fine to test, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you brought your rope into the store. I do spontaneous tree climbing technique demos in my local REI all the time, they love seeing weird tree ropes and harnesses, you'll have a small crowd. Throw your rope over a pipe in the store and go to town. The idea of testing on any rope in the store is to fully understand with your hands how the device works, most if not all of your questions and concerns will be answered.
-moss

CMI ultra ascenders are quite difficult to remove from the rope. You really have to practice to be able remove them with one hand.



There is a spring-loaded lever on the spine of the ascender that must be moved a minimum of 90 degrees downward before the cam can be brought down far enough for the ascender to be removed from the rope.

I like these for certain things, mostly rescue rigging, hauling systems etc. But, I ALWAYS use my Petzl ascenders for tree and rock climbing. They are WAAAYYY more convenient and comfortable.

I wish I had a video camera. I would shoot a short video explaining the differences between the two.

moss wrote:

Any reason why you can't put your hand on the tail of the rope just below the ascender when you lift it to advance it? It's a much easier motion than thumbing the cam while you lift.

I don't have any experience with using an ascender. Maybe that is the easy solution. I thought one handed operation would be the ideal. This isn't a life-safety situation so maybe I should try building something. It doesn't need to be a conventional ascender.

Davej wrote:I don't have any experience with using an ascender. Maybe that is the easy solution. I thought one handed operation would be the ideal. This isn't a life-safety situation so maybe I should try building something. It doesn't need to be a conventional ascender.

Yep, that's why I suggest visiting an outdoor gear store and try putting an ascender on a rope, any rope, and fiddle around with it to get familiar with how it behaves. A cammed ascender is a great way to anchor a footloop on the down rope for DRT. For my facilitated climbs it's very rare to find a climber who prefers a prusik foot loop over a mechanical ascender/footloop combo. If you decide to get into SRT at some point you'll already have an ascender available. I always like it when a tool has multiple uses.
-moss

sorry, tried to add a video. didn't work

Baker wrote:
sorry, tried to add a video. didn't work

You couldn't post a link to it?

Bad link. Can't find the glitch.