Ideal saddle attach point geometry?

With the discussion of the soft legstrap loop on the NT Tengu harness which Moss makes use of in some climbing configurations I am now curious about saddle geometry. At what heights above a rigid chair-like surface would the idea saddle attach points be?

Davej wrote:

With the discussion of the soft legstrap loop on the NT Tengu harness which Moss makes use of in some climbing configurations I am now curious about saddle geometry. At what heights above a rigid chair-like surface would the idea saddle attach points be?

Could you rephrase the question? Not clear to me what you're asking.
-moss

Well, you know I ask a lot of useless questions:laugh: ... Since there seems to be interest in the lower tie-in loop on the Tengu I'm just curious if you consider that height to be ideal, or if even a lower point would be considered ideal? I'm supposing that a tie-in might be possible at any height at or above that of a rigid bosun seat.

Davej wrote:

Well, you know I ask a lot of useless questions:laugh: ... Since there seems to be interest in the lower tie-in loop on the Tengu I'm just curious if you consider that height to be ideal, or if even a lower point would be considered ideal? I'm supposing that a tie-in might be possible at any height at or above that of a rigid bosun seat.

For the tight eye on the Tengu legstrap D, I'm hooking one leg of the rope in a DRT system the other leg is on my delta. If you tied both legs of the DRT system into the legstrap D connection only you would be hanging back horizontal, not a good body position for climbing.

A bosun seat hangs below the attachment point to the rope, I guess it needs to be high enough so there's room to sit in the seat. Or are you talking about attaching yourself to the bosun seat?
-moss

moss wrote:
For the tight eye on the Tengu legstrap D, I'm hooking one leg of the rope in a DRT system the other leg is on my delta. If you tied both legs of the DRT system into the legstrap D connection only you would be hanging back horizontal, not a good body position for climbing.

A bosun seat hangs below the attachment point to the rope, I guess it needs to be high enough so there's room to sit in the seat. Or are you talking about attaching yourself to the bosun seat?

Well, after looking at your photo again I'm not sure I see much difference in the height of the attach points. Isn't the HMS biner about the same length as the Maillon Rapide pear?

Really my interest is in the fit of various saddles and the relative heights of their ventral attach points. I figured a bosun seat might be a good reference to measure from but maybe the top of the thighs is more practical?

Davej wrote:

Well, after looking at your photo again I'm not sure I see much difference in the height of the attach points. Isn't the HMS biner about the same length as the Maillon Rapide pear?

Height isn't everything. The HMS biner is further away from the climber (in front of the pear) so it changes the climber's pitch or hang angle slightly.

Also, the pear or delta is attached to the belt loops as well as the legstrap D's which sets the climber's pitch more to an upright position. That's why if you hang exclusively on the leg strap D you will hang back almost horizontal. Try it and you'll see (can't remember if you have an NT harness or not).
-moss

Davej wrote:

Really my interest is in the fit of various saddles and the relative heights of their ventral attach points. I figured a bosun seat might be a good reference to measure from but maybe the top of the thighs is more practical?

There's quite a range between different manufacturers designs. The rule of thumb (my experience hanging on different harnesses) is the lower that attachment point the more the climber's body position is pitched back towards horizontal. The goal is to find the sweet spot for your climbing technique and style. If you're pitched too far back you have to work harder on each pull going up. If you're too vertical the leg straps tend to dig into your groin. Another way of looking at it is how well your weight is distributed and balanced between your legstraps and your waist belt. Ideal is in the middle. One of the reasons that New Tribe harnesses are so comfortable for long hang times is that they are well balanced between the waist belt and leg straps and the leg strap pads are quite generous.
-moss

...and too high it'll pull the gear into your ribcage, making for great discomfort, and possible difficulty breathing.