Yella Grapnels: when to swing and when to throw?

I've just taken delivery of a couple of Yella Grapnels. Spohia sent me them after I told her that they might come in handy when I climb and measure the tallest Beeches (Fagus Sylvatcae) in Europe early next year.

This was the first time I've seen the production model of my invention! They were smaller than I'd expected but they certainly work - I mean they grab everything: I unfurled the line they came with and they grabbed that. I let it dangle from the line and it grabbed my jacket pocket. I put the shot bag over a beam in my house and threw the grapnel. My first throw was perfect - it grabbed the dangling line with 2 arms. Beginner's luck: my second throw missed completely and the little rascal grabbed the door handle and wouldn't let go!

My question is: which of the line grabbing methods do you all use? The throwing method as above OR the method whereby the grapnel is attached to your end of the throwline and you let it swing down to the dangling bag? ...and when does each one the preferred method?

(btw: I designed the grapnel to catch the dangling line as it swings past it using the latter method but it seems to work for both.)

Michael

I swing the Grapnel on a relatively short line when the bag is not too far away and there is plenty of clearance to make the swing. Otherwise I attach the Grapnel to the same throwline that has the bag on it and send it out to grab the line above the bag. I've never thrown the Grapnel, the other two methods have covered everything I've been up against so far.
-Andrew

New Tribe seem to advocate throwing it. From their web page:

"We tested them snagging both throwline and rope. We threw them both right-handed and left-handed. In a trial of 40 well-aimed tosses (not including air tosses), the winner snagged the line 36 times..."

It works if you throw with one hand and when it passes the dangling line, pull it back with the other hand held out to your opposite side, causing the grapnel to swing sideways into the dangling line on the way back, catching it. However you need both hands and there is much more chance of catching other branches instead.

Michael

That makes sense Michael. Thinking about it I do throw it sometimes, for closer stuff. For medium distance I like swinging the grapnel, gives me more control and accuracy (to prevent hanging it up), then for longer distance or obstructed path settings the "dangle" technique.
-Andrew

I guess for shorter distances it saves the time taken to attach the grapnel to the line and I've found you can use it to catch a dangling climbing rope if you've just thrown it over a limb directly.

Michael

[Otherwise I attach the Grapnel to the same throwline that has the bag on it and send it out to grab the line above the bag. I've never thrown the Grapnel, the other two methods have covered everything I've been up against so far.
-Andrew[/quote]

this is the method we are using although we tie a throw bag on as well to give enought weight but you have to make sure there is enough line (the end with the throw bag) dangling to equal the distance of the return or it will be caught short and not be retrievable then yopu need to unnatach the hook or you will be stuck there (Does that make sense?)

I've been doing it this way too Koala. It gives more control and only takes a few extra seconds to attach it to the line.

I use an 8oz throwbag to throw over a limb and for most bark types, the weight of the grapnel alone is enough to create the friction required to stop the bag from dropping, plus you can make the bag drop if you need to by jiggling the grapnel up and down, for example when the grapnel needs to pass over the top of some foliage between you and the target limb.

I guess the bark on Eucalypts is very smooth so you need the extra weight on the grapnel to balance the weight of the throwbag.

Amazing to see it's being used round the other side of the world now!

Michael

Another thing I've been wondering: How often do you need to reach a monkey fist that's dangling out of reach? Do you ever use a Retreever? (a hook on a 19" telescopic pole that extends to 10 feet).

(I suppose you would be attached to the other end of the rope so you couldn't attach a grapnel to your end of the climbing rope and swing it down to the dangling end like you would with throwline.)

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

Another thing I've been wondering: How often do you need to reach a monkey fist that's dangling out of reach? Do you ever use a Retreever? (a hook on a 19" telescopic pole that extends to 10 feet).

(I suppose you would be attached to the other end of the rope so you couldn't attach a grapnel to your end of the climbing rope and swing it down to the dangling end like you would with throwline.)

Michael

It's rare that I can't get my hand to reach a rope end from a thrown monkey fist. If that doesn't work just swinging my throwbag and line on my harness will get it. If not that then the Grapnel. I friend of mine won't climb without a Retreever, I guess I enjoy the challenge of getting to a rope or throwline without it. The one time I climbed with one it kept getting in the way and tangling up with my in-tree throwline. It failed the aggravation test, any gear on my harness that causes trouble more than 3 times no longer gets to ride on my harness.
-Andrew

its the old debate... the compromise between lots of gear and simplicity
im in between but if one can do things simply all the better i reckon gear is always gonna get in the way if it can
and I totally agree with the challenge aspect which is also why i limit the amount of tag lines it feels like cheating somehow

I tend to be a bit of a minimalist. Regarding the monkey fist scenario... I would try to get it by getting it to swing to me, or utilise a nearby dead branch, etc. I like the challenge of doing as much as possible without too many doodads. But, that's just my preferrence.
Ron.

Me too. I also like using one tool for multiple tasks (for example my Big Shot is also a washing line pole )

Michael

This reminds me, i need to order a yellow one. I still have the blue one. It works fine- but a kid a Camp Ramah (a jewish camp!) asked me why I had a swastika hanging from my harness!

Yikes...

Doesn't the Yella Grapnel look even more like a swastika though?

After seeing an indian girl I used to know repeatedly drawing doodles of them on a piece of paper I looked it up and found that the swastika is an ancient symbol in many cultures, probably coming about from patterns found in basket weaving. In Indian culture it means a good luck charm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

It's a shame it's now synonymous with the Nazi emblem

Michael

Im not actually using the yellow grapnel
I had a dodgy gaffa tape and wire thing copied from a picture of the yella as an interim
my climbing buddy Pete who is a welder and clever has come up with a modified version with a short shaft and a hollow end with a hollow nut it can attach a throw bag to give that extra weight it is very compact and easy to carry and works very well indeed specially tied midline

the swastika had the direction reversed in the nazi version didn't it