A few terminology questions?

1. Are there commonly used basic terms to describe general tree shapes and the manner in which the main stem branches out?

2. Is there a term for positioning yourself closer to the center of the tree than your TIP -- such as if you are climbing on top of an angled limb?

3. Is there a term for climbing with no weight on your rope vs. with your full weight on your rope?

4. In a typical limb walk is there a term for lanyarding to the limb for the return walk back toward the trunk?

5. Is there a term for positioning the rope over the TIP and then around the main stem rather than the smaller branch?

6. Is there a term for not quite isolating a \"wild\" TIP as a safety measure?

7. Is there a term for being higher in a tree than your rope would reach for an immediate emergency descent?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Yes there are terms for describing the crown shape for a particular species or individual tree. I don't have them at hand, if you do a search on \"tree anatomy\" or something like that you should be able to find it. It breaks down into basic geometric concepts like: conical, round, inverted cone, etc.

2. I just call it a higher or lower rope angle. Higher angle increases risk of dangerous swing back to the trunk.

3. Not that I know of. In tree climbing creating slack between you and the TIP while you ascend is essentially free climbing. Shock load potential can be as dangerous as climbing without a rope and falling to the ground. Climbers typically take up slack as they climb on the tree, ascending off the tree it's impossible to create slack

4. Not that I know of, the lanyard used as described is a second TIP so technically speaking you're double-crotching.

5. Yes, work climbers call it placing the TIP on the spar.

6. Not that I know of, either you're isolating or you're not. I suppose you could call it a backed up or redundant TIP but I've never heard of it described that way for DRT. In SRT trunk anchored systems climbers refer to \"capturing\" additional limbs below the TIP for enhanced security.

7. Not that I know of. Climbing higher than your rope will reach back to the ground is such a common practice in rec climbing, it goes without saying. That's why basic DRT safety protocol calls for doing a down check to make sure your doubled rope can reach the ground before initiating descent. You want to know whether or not you need to plan a re-pitch to get out of the tree before you start descent.

Davej wrote:

1. Are there commonly used basic terms to describe general tree shapes and the manner in which the main stem branches out?

2. Is there a term for positioning yourself closer to the center of the tree than your TIP -- such as if you are climbing on top of an angled limb?

3. Is there a term for climbing with no weight on your rope vs. with your full weight on your rope?

4. In a typical limb walk is there a term for lanyarding to the limb for the return walk back toward the trunk?

5. Is there a term for positioning the rope over the TIP and then around the main stem rather than the smaller branch?

6. Is there a term for not quite isolating a \"wild\" TIP as a safety measure?

7. Is there a term for being higher in a tree than your rope would reach for an immediate emergency descent?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

moss wrote:
2. I just call it a higher or lower rope angle. Higher angle increases risk of dangerous swing back to the trunk.

Ok, but in this case you would swing away from the center of the tree if you slipped off.

3. [...]Climbers typically take up slack as they climb on the tree, ascending off the tree it's impossible to create slack

Maybe that is the answer; \"climbing on the tree?\"

4. Not that I know of, the lanyard used as described is a second TIP so technically speaking you're double-crotching.

Maybe this is uncommon since it would require such a long lanyard
in DRT mode.

5. Yes, work climbers call it placing the TIP on the spar.

Ok.

6. [...]climbers refer to \"capturing\" additional limbs below the TIP for enhanced security.

Ok.

7. Not that I know of. Climbing higher than your rope will reach back to the ground is such a common practice in rec climbing, it goes without saying. That's why basic DRT safety protocol calls for doing a down check...

[/quote]

First pitch? Maybe ground pitch? Thanks.

Davej wrote:

Ok, but in this case you would swing away from the center of the tree if you slipped off.

Re-reading your original question #2 I realize I don't know what you're asking. Can you clarify?

Davej wrote:

Maybe this is uncommon since it would require such a long lanyard in DRT mode.

It's common enough, it's more likely though that the climber will use the lanyard to hold position on a limbwalk but not always for the return. I do use the lanyard that way in a return, it's still technically double-crotching. If the lanyard isn't long enough to make it all the way back then you re-pitch the lanyard to continue back towards the trunk.

If you're anticipating a long return from a limb walk that requires protection from swing back you can always double-crotch with the other end of your main climbing rope to make the return. Different situations, different approaches.
-moss

moss wrote:

Davej wrote:

Ok, but in this case you would swing away from the center of the tree if you slipped off.

Re-reading your original question #2 I realize I don't know what you're asking. Can you clarify?

Well, essentially you're in a tree with angled limbs rather than a central spar and you're on the same limb as your TIP and the limb is angled up to your TIP. You could climb up the rope out there in midair or you could crawl up the top of the limb. I just thought there might be a name for this.

Davej wrote:

Well, essentially you're in a tree with angled limbs rather than a central spar and you're on the same limb as your TIP and the limb is angled up to your TIP. You could climb up the rope out there in midair or you could crawl up the top of the limb. I just thought there might be a name for this.

Oh ok, got it. Usually refer to this as climbing above or below the lean. Climbing above the lean (on the angled limb or trunk) puts you on the trunk and is fairly arduous. Gravity wants to take you off and you tend to use your upper body more which fatigues you faster. Climbing below the lean midair is much easier. I'm probably not the only one who calls climbing above the lean \"humping the trunk\", it's a tough way to travel.
-moss

In response to question #1... the basic strategies are decurrent or excurrent growth. Excurrent growth has a strong central leader with apical dominance like most pines. Decurrent growth is found in shade trees that will grow far and wide with co-dominant leaders such as elms, poplars, fruit trees.

woodsong wrote:
Excurrent growth has a strong central leader with apical dominance like most pines. Decurrent growth is found in shade trees that will grow far and wide with co-dominant leaders such as elms, poplars, fruit trees.

Thanks! So how do you describe the degree of \"decurrentness?\" Above some point in a typical deciduous tree there are only many equal sized limbs. In some trees this is near the top while in others in is near the bottom. For N branches is this N-way co-dominance?

You're thinking too hard about it. Decurrent is simply no central leader. There really isn't stages in it, it's rarer to see an excurrent tree. A good example is a tulip tree, which shows a pretty good tendency towards excurrent form for quite a while in life, then becomes decurrent with age. (like my abs) White Pines are excurrent until they get white pine weevil that kills the central leader, then presto they're decurrent. Spruce and fir are excurrent.

Tim

its hard to do a pinpoint analysis of something as beautifully variably as a tree. The next thing I could suggest would go into the shape as a landscaper would call it. They would use general terms for a trees \"habit\" such as columnar, pyramidal, trapezoidal, round, oval, vase shaped, weeping, etc.