Direct tie-in vs. biner with delta

For public intro climbs, I was taught to directly tie-in the figure eight bite loop to the top of the climber's delta. Thinking was that there would be no biner for the climber to play or tamper with in the tree.

But in presenting my program to some parks folk in Ft. Collins, CO, the staff arborist was concerned that the rope in the delta might work to unscrew the link. He runs ANSI climbing competitions and says he would disqualify anyone using a delta screw link, although Sophia assures me they're ANSI approved.

Any thoughts on direct tie-in vs biner vs something else on intro climbs?

There are NO ANSI climbing competitions. That isn't what ANSI is about. There are ISA climbing comps that follow ANSI regs. Is that what you mean?

If so, I've done gear checks and been head judge at many chapter comps. I've also been involved in the ITCC on and off again for years. MR screwlinks, not Pacific rim origins. are generally allowed. We will have people give them just a really gentle turn with a wrench. No more than a pinch.

For everyday climbing I use several screw links on my saddle. I also do gear checks daily at a minimum and sometimes everytime I saddle up. The most that I have ever had an MR open is one full turn. It takes several full turns to open.

Tom

Tom,
Sorry for my loose lingo on ANSI/ISA. Thanks for your response - especially since this guy knows you.

Thanks also Robert for the good info.

Harv, your approach sounds interesting. When we climb with new climbers, we use triple action locking biners - probably just because that's how we learned. How long does it take to tie in, or especially UNtie a climber. I assume you are using a figure 8 on a bight that you rethread. Or, do you just unscrew the Delta and leave the figure 8 on a bight in for all the climbers?
Thanks, Patrick

Patrick,

You assume right about the figure eight. On a bite though, not the follow through. We leave one side loop of the Ness saddle off until we slip the rope onto the top of the delta. Doesn't take that much longer, and the kids can't get off or on rope without supervision. Plus less of those expensive biners disappearing.

Harv

Actually Patrick, I've been thinking about that other possibility you mentioned - leaving a delta on each rope and not having to worry about having one on each saddle. The saddles will flap about a bit as the climbers approach and leave the rope, but that's an interesting idea.

By the way, I didn't come up with the idea of direct-tying in to the saddle on group climbs. It was either Peter, Tim, or Abe I learned that from, I forget which.

Originally posted by Ponderosa
leaving a delta on each rope and not having to worry about having one on each saddle.

I must have been a little unclear; that's not quite what I meant. I meant that you would just have the figure 8 loop waiting for a climber to walk up to it and attach their delta onto it. One big problem with leaving something on the rope is that you don't have as much control over who is going "on rope". If they have to go to you to get a biner or to get tied in, you can know who is about to start climbing. Also, if you leave a biner or a delta on the loop, someone could easily take it (we lost several biners last year) or it could fall off the rope onto the ground and get broken or lost.

Attaching a ring through the bight made by the figure-8 knot might be a compromise to the situation of retaining equipment and satisfying concerns about the rope contacting the screw-gate of the delta.

Good idea, Jim.

Harv