Installing a descender Question

Installing a Descender Device

I have been practicing w/ SRT using CMI ultrascenders and I have a question. After you reach the top of the branch but you are still hanging from the rope what piece of equipment do you use to get down and how do you install it.?
What is your favorite method?

I did three climbs today and tried 3 techniques .
First I ascended and tried to come down with a rack. (Full-size rack). It was hard to install and disconect the ascenders while still hanging from the rope. I finally have to climb on a branch and do the transfer there while resting on the branch and came down. What I did wrong?
On The second climb I tried the figure eight to descend. It was easier to install while still hanging on the rope but them I could not remove the bottom ascender so I did have to climb on the branch to do the transfer from ascending to descending gear. The descent was a little too fast and whitout much control for my taste because of the single rope going thru the figure 8 but I safely arrived at the ground.

For the final climb I instaled a GRIGRI to the bottom of the rope and hanged it to the side loop of the seat harness. When I reached the top I was able to pull the GRIGRI up, remove the top ascender and the bottom ascender while still hanging from the line and them descend safely and under complete control. I have used the GRIGRI before with a technique Panama Joe showed me in NE called the Yo-Yo and I see how the GRIGRI is a prefered piece of equipment for the job. Any suggestions on other techniques to try will be welcomed.

I like the Piranha for descending myself. The Grigri is good as well. The figure 8 is OK if you use a double wrap. The single wrap is a bit too fast for my taste. The rack is OK, but bulky. Racks are good for long descents, like over 100 feet.

The trick is to first place the descender between the two ascenders (while your foot is out of the stirrups) , lock off the descender, back track with the upper ascender until your full load is on the locked off descender. Now take off the bottom ascender. You are now safely hanging by the locked off descender. Take off the locking knot slowly (that is on the descending device, but not needed with the Grigri) and start your descent.

Practice this technique while just a few feet off the ground to get the hang of it. Then go higher when you have some experience and muscle memory.

I always have a safety knot with Grigri on sportline before descent.the Grigri sometimes slips on Sportline.

Elliot Su
Tree Climbing Taiwan

Thanks treeman, that makes sense. If you install the rack below the ascenders you can not easily remove them before going down but placing the rack in between to top and bottom ascender removes that problem. I will try it next time. Low ad slow! Hope to be able to visit Atlanta and do some climbing w/ you guys soon. Has anyone from TCI heard from the guys in Austin that are trying to get started in the recreational climbing business?? Just curious.
Thanks Again

I sometimes use a double wrap on the 8 with a single line rappel. Much more friction.

Here is what I like to do when using the 8. On the ground attach the eight to your harness using the large hole. After you have reached your height you want, thread your rope through the 8 once or twice, while it is still attached to the biner in the large hole. Less chance of it dropping. Unclip the 8 and it is attached to the rope turn the 8 around and connect as normal. Learn how to lock it off!!!! Then you can unhook your ascender. you might need to make a foot lock or use a prussik to step into get the ascender off. Also practice on the ground and learn to thread it for r or l hand.

There are also others ways to get more friction on the 8 like wrapping it around your body. In another thread we taked about using the tactical 8 rappel.

I just used the rack for the first time ever about two weeks ago and loved it. If I made longer drops I would buy one!!!!

Here is a picture of a double wrap on a SMALL 8. I have BW 8's so they are bigger than this one but this is what I mean.

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Rappel/EightPages/EEight585.html

I too use the piranha. It's somewhat similar to the figure eight, but I believe more elegant. Joe M. and I have a running joke about piranha vs. rack. But I do like the rack, especially for doing laundry.

I climb with the piranha clipped to my lower tie in. I use a method similar to what Peter described above, but the switchover's still always a bit of a struggle, especially if you're suspended like a piñata in a 90mph Chinook. For ease of switchover, the Grigri might be best.

I also use the piranha for DRT descents, reducing the wear and tear from the Blakes.

Ponderosa, Thanks for the advise. I see that yours and Peter suggestion will work better. ( Experience after all!)I got a bunch of extra equipment from a friend that used to be a cave explorer so I have 2 extra racks ( very heavy) extra rope, three extra (weir) harnesses, and a cool ascending system similar to a rope walker that one of the guys demonstrated in NE. I will try it one of these days but trying to figure out what goes where is taking a while even with the original manufacturers instructions. Take care and be safe.

Can I use one of them thar racks for a few weeks?

I was just practicing switching from ascending on ascenders to descending on a rap device the other day. Here's what I was doing...

-Climb up the rope, get to the turn around point (a few feet from the TIP)
-Hang all weight in upper ascender
-Pull feet out of lower ascender
-Install Trango Jaws on rope at belly height (above the lower, but below the upper
-Reach down, advance the lower ascender a foot or two, step in it.
-Stepping on lower ascender locks of the belay device, and advancing the ascender allowed me to reach up and take off the upper ascender
-Remove upper
-Switch from feet locking off the belay device to hand locking it off
-Pull feet out of lower ascender
-Take a footlock. This locks off belay device
-Remove lower ascender
-Grab rope, release footlock, rap down

Easy, right?

love
nick

I like the Petzl Stop. It doesn't wind up the rope and is easy to use. You can climb with it attached and you don't have to disconnect it from your body to hook it to your rope. Very easily controlled and if you get going too fast, just let go like you do the Blakes. Very easy to use with SRT or DRT either one.

Use Nick's procedure and it'll be real smoooooth.

Be well.

Rod

I'd add one thing to Nick's system. Make sure you put an autolock below the descending device. This way if you lose your grip on the controlling hand, the autolock holds you from falling. I also use that instead of Nick footlock as I'm taking the upper ascender off. If you've never heard of the autolock,look at Redpanda's postings under the rapelling thread.

I'd like to add a word of caution. Before you leave the ground you should be very familiar with changing systems.

"Low and slow" is the mantra.

Practice changeovers when you're standing on the ground.

Be sure to read all of Storrick's page as well as other books like On Rope, The Tree Climber's Companion.