SRT Ascent to Descent proceedure

Howdy,

Got my gear last Friday and have been trying things out low and slow if you will.

Anyways, since I am just going a few feet up and then descending I am forced to learn how to do a up to down change over using the SRT.

I fumbled through it a few times with my figure 8 and my tube belay device that I have always used for rappelling during my rock climbing days.

Seeking a better way, I got a GriGri since it supposedly locks in place a little easier than the figure 8 (I don't like the double wrap on the 8 since it causes even more rope twist) and does not twist the rope.

Anyways, here is my procedure I figured out, I am going to try it this afternoon. Let me know what you think

1. Stand up
2. Move right Ascender up

3. Sit down
4. Attach grigri to rope (under R ascender) and clip to harness
5. Lock rope off above GriGri

6. Stand
7. Remove and store R ascender

8. Sit down
9. Remove L ascender

10. Unlock rope
11. Rappell

For easy memory go

Stand
Right Up

Sit
Clip
Lock

Stand
Right Off

Sit
Left Off

Unlock
Drop


Thoughts?

Bakes

You could just use the yo-yo ascending system, then there is no sit, stand up, business.. just unclip your ascender and away you go.

mateo

Please get a copy of the book, "On Rope" and memorize and practice the "Changover" steps listed there for your type of specific ascent and descent devices that you use.
We had a class last year with the author, Bruce Smith, and he even taught us after many many repititions of the changover steps, to do it blind folded while calling out each step as a group leader approved or reminded us of any steps forgotten. This should become like second nature so as to avoid almost any chance of accident.

I have the book...the description on pg 301-302 is for a different set up. I am using CMI ultrascenders rather than the set-up in Fig 12-5, 12-6 and 12-7. That being said, if you read both, they are is basically the same proceedure except that my Right Ascender is acting as the QAS.

I didn't get out of work early enough to try it so I can't say either way on it yet. Anybody see anything wrong with the proceedure?

Just wondering if anybody here regularly does changeovers using the handled ascender setup with SRT.


Also, how many of y'all use a handled ascender QAS when you climb. If so, do you use it frequently or does it just sit on your belt.


Later

Bakes

I faced the change-over problem as well. I thought the traditional stand-sit, etc. was too cumbersome and I was pretty uncomfortable with it, height phobia I suppose.

So I came up with a load releasing tie-in that greatly simplifies the change-over. I construct a DRT tie-in complete with a Blake's hitch in the prusik cord. I use this to connect my harness to my ascender, hence, via the Blake's hitch and cord, I not only have an adjustable tie between my harness and ascender, I have a much simplified change over. To change over I:

1- remove my foot ascender and loops - I won't need them.

2- install my descender and lock it off

3- Via the Blake's hitch in the prusik cord, slowly transfer my weight from the ascender to the locked rappelling device

4- remove the ascender

5- rappel

Notice no standing to transfer weight. Try it; I promise you'll like it.

You might want to look in to the Petzl Pirana as well. I've used a tube device for a while, but after going to the pirana I'm sold.

Aside from being able to adjust the rappel friction in about six different ways. It is a very easy device to lock off. I've tied the mule knot on the tube device multiple times, and there's always that freaky slippage of rope when you release it. On the Pirana it is solid because an extra wrap goes up and over the device before you tie a mule knot.

The grigri is nice but it does have some limitations like smaller diameter ropes, inability to rappel on double rope and it's a little heavier and bulkier than something like a Pirana.

Another great thing about the pirana is it goes on your rappel/belay biner and it never comes off. No chance of dropping it from high up in the canopy.

Here is a technique I use when climbing SRT with 16 strand 1/2" poly kernmantle, specifically NE Rope safety blue. I use a pair of LH RH toothed Petzl ascenders with the two foot loops. I practiced this 3 ft off the ground and I didn't take it high until I could do it six times without mistakes.

The changeover:

1)Boots out of the loops, unload cam for lower foot loops and remove from line.

2) Attach Fig 8 descender to line. Verify that it is oriented correctly should you need to softlock it.

3)Attach carabiner to your center ring in front of your existing clipped in hardware (closest to you) and clip in the descender.

4)Take a big pear carabiner and attach to your right (or left depending on your descender and line orientation) side D ring.

5)Form a Munter hitch in your line and clip into the carabiner on your side D.

6)Grab your line below the Munter hitch and pull upward, tilting your body to allow as much rope as possible to pass thru from above you thru the Munter hitch. If you do this properly, the Munter hitch should come back thru the biner and reverse when you let go of the line, and assume the proper orientation for descending. It's possible to get hung up if you don't do this now. Don't wait till your full descent weight is on it to get the knot to reverse.

7) Clip your lower Petzl that attaches to your boot loops back into the line. ABOVE the Fig 8 descender. This is SO important. If you mistakenly clip in below it could jam up against the Fig 8. Clip it in close to the Fig 8, just above. If you do get it wrong, you can fix it by re-attaching the top ascender, then footlocking the rope and pulling it down.

8)Put your boots back in the loops. Using the line, and not the descender strap, pull yourself up as you stand. Now all your weight is on the lower Petzl, and with one hand steadying yourself holding the line, unload the cam and remove the top ascender.

9) IMPORTANT TECHNIQUE - Before you let go of the line and let your weight settle onto the descender, grab the running end of your line below the Munter hitch and pull it upward and hold it. This keeps you from descending and ending up with your heels over your head, all crunched up in the Petzl lower half. Take your feet out of the boot straps.

10) Now, you will prbably find that between both friction rigs, the Fig 8 and the Munter, you won't go anywhere if you take your hand off your line. So at this point, I take a moment to unwind the Petzl straps out of my center ring and climbing line and let it hand off to the side where it will not entangle with anything else.

11) Hand feed your line up into the Munter, and you will descend a little bit for each length you feed in. If you have bare hands don't let your fingers get nipped by the Munter. That's it. I keep my legs straight out and my toes up and use the descent as an opportunity to stretch my calf muscles.

It is possible that if you use a rope other than what I use, it may slip thru more easily, but I find that I move hardly at all unless I feed the line into the Munter.

Sorry - one type. When I connect the Fig 8 descender to my center floating ring, I'm pretty sure it's on the far side of the ring, farthest away from me. The point here is not to have the newly attached carabiner and descender bind up in the other hardware.

dude 5, i hated the prospect of changeover until i started using an ultrascender with a gri gri. here is my attempt to describe a confusing procedure.

While climbing, I have my ultrascender first.

Below that, my second attachment is my gri gri, teathered to my harness with a strap and a foot or two of slack. The gri gri is also attached to my dangeling foot loops.

The rope coming out of the gri gri then goes back up to a pulley on my ascender.

Now, when I pull the tail of my rope, my feet go up. I stand, push up my ascender, sit and repeat.

This might not be the most efficient climbing style, but the changeover is very nice.

First, with the tension on my ascender, I attach the gri gri directly to my harness. I then pull the tail end and suddenly, all my weight is on the gri gri. Unclip my ascender and down i go.

This is extremely smooth and allows me to quickly reconnect to climb if I want.

Are you guys using two hand ascenders on your described SRT method?
It looks like you are describing a single hand (left) Ascender and a pulley tied below it similar to the RAD/Yo-yo system posted on the New Tribe Web site. (Tengu Tips Area).

I used to have the same problems in the SRT switch over until Peter told me what I was doing wrong and now it is so natural that I can do it without any stress or extra gear. ( I use the Gri-gri instead of a figure-8 for descending). I have two ( Left and Right CMI Ultracender) Ascenders that are used for SRT without any pulleys involved.
I gave up using the Fig-8 because it does not lock up like the Gri-gri and because it twists the rope too much with every descend.

rboreal - thanks for this post, from 4+ years later! This is why the web is helpful.

I have been learning SRT in the safety of my basement (I have a 3" pipe I sling ropes over, anchored to the joists) I have been struggling with a changeover to a Fig 8 that feels safe and reliable. The munter hitch on a biner on the D ring was exactly what I needed. It also allows for an easier lockoff (munter mule) that can removed while under tension without much fear.

rbutera if you like the Munter hitch then try the monster munter hitch. it will keep your rope from twisting so much.

6 months later .... I'm still climbing SRT tree frog style, but I ditched the Figure 8. It is in a "stuff you might need" bag I take up in the tree with me (not sure why - but I keep it). I now use a Petzl Stop, backed by a prusik. I got the Stop cheap as part of a bulk gear purchase, and wanted one for some (I hope) intro caving trips this Spring.

The changeover is easy, and the Stop is easy to lock off. Contrary to its name, it doesn't stop 100% - it still creeps a little when you let go (unlike a grigri), at least on my Poison Ivy rope. Maybe it behaves different on a stiffer non-arborist rope. But as long as you know that, lockoff is easy, it is really smooth to descend on, and it brakes reliably when I let go.

Last month I finally had the RADS/yo-yo demonstrated to me at a local climb. I tried it with a borrowed grigri last week. While I like the integrated ascent/descent ability, for my purposes I think I'll stick with the tree frog for now. I like the simplicity and speed. I'm still not a huge fan of SRT (too many extra "things"), but it really does get you up the tree with less effort, and I'm starting to appreciate that! I'm currently working on integrating SRT on my initial ascent with DRT once I'm up there.

- Rob

I used a combination of SRT and double rope technique when I was a tree worker. I would SRT up to the top of the tree, set my cambium saver and new anchor point, and switch over to DRT to work the tree. It saved me a lot of time.

I have not used the frog yet but I hear it's really quick. Nothing beats DRT for moving around in a tree as far as safety is concerned. But nowadays everybody has their own climbing style. There are so many styles to choose from. That is so awesome! More choices. However, tree climbing is very Darwinian. One mistake in your life is either snuffed or radically changed. That's why it's very important to be familiar with your climbing system. A good climbing system is the safe climbing system.

Treeman