Double end split tail climbing.

I have been told that you can not splice a loop at both ends of a climbing rope because it inhibits milking. Is this true? I am asking because I would like to order my next rope with a two end splice for double end split tail climbing. Please advise me. I want to use Poison Ivy rope.

Interesting, I bought my first length of PI when it was first came on the market, it milked over 30" off a 120 ft. rope. Since then they've improved it quite a bit. I have a new length of PI that's shown zero signs of milking after many climbs. It seems that you have a better chance of getting away with a splice on both ends now. I'll defer to Nick Araya on this one. Nick?

I guess the danger is that if the splice milks off the core you're in trouble. Or would that not happen? Would the sheath bunch at the splice? That would still compromise strength I think. Need a splicer to comment.

Originally posted by Treeman
I have been told that you can not splice a loop at both ends of a climbing rope because it inhibits milking. Is this true? I am asking because I would like to order my next rope with a two end splice for double end split tail climbing. Please advise me. I want to use Poison Ivy rope.

You definitely do not want a rope spliced on both ends that is going to milk.

The solution: Splice one end. Climb on the rope to its full length and descend to milk it out. Repeat two or three times, or until it milks no more. Now you are probably safe in splicing the other end.

Clearly the supply houses won't do this for you, but a reputable custom splicer (Nick!) might provide this service.

Leon has described the procedure for splicing both ends. Keep climbing and milking until the sheath and core stabilize.

If they aren't stable the milking after the second splice will bunch up above the splice making for an ugly rope and a waste of money when you whack the splice off.

Wow, I feel like I JUST was talking about this a little while ago

This is from a post of mine over at Master Blaster's website....

Regarding splicing both ends....the only thing I can do with it here is splice one end, milk the HELL out of it, then cut off the excess and splice the other end.

The BEST way for me to milk it is to climb a tall tree, hang a pulley, and descend a FEW times on it. I can usually get a foot or 2 on those first 3 descents. The rope might look a little used when you get it, but it will be the best splices you could have, rather than just ordering a rope straight from other places that just put the splice in each end and leave it at that.

Other than that, it's up to the user to make sure that they milk the cover and jam the excess down to the other splice which could conceivably mess up that splice.

The BEST thing to do, is what pantheraba said, splice now, climb climb climb climb climb, THEN splice the other end. Obviously, it's costly if you're shipping back and forth all the time.


You can see the rest of the thread at Click Here

Some places will splice new ropes on either end. This only happens under one of 3 circumstances (that I can see)

1- The company is of the opinion (or they KNOW) that that rope is not going to milk (much).
2- They don't think it's a problem if it DOES milk because (theoretically) no one in their right mind would send all that slack into the other splice
3- The company doing the splicing doesn't understand milking and doesn't see the risk of adding excess slack into a splice.

It's a slow process, but if you send it to me, let me climb on it a few times, I can usually milk off 1' to 4' off the end of the rope before splicing the 2nd end.

Climb safely!

love
nick

Order with one end spliced. Then just use a figure eight on a bight on the other end until the cow has come home (it has milked). Then do the splice later on the other end.

Splicing both ends after milking will not solve the long term milking process as I understand. Milking comes from strech which happens over time as the centre core is not a fixed part of the outer sleeve so, although you milking now will solve the immediate problem, further down the line, pardon the pun, you will have to remove the splice to once again milk the rope.

What you milk off in those first few descents is the overwhelming majority of the cover that will EVER milk off of it. My current climbing line is almost 3 years old. I milked about 3' of cover off the first day. I clipped the end off clean and only saw about an inch of extra milkage after 3ish years of climbing on it.

I've seen this occur in MANY ropes. If you are a tiny bit mindful not to jam excess slack into the splice on the other end, you can double-end it with no problem.

love
nick

a good way to "milk" the rope outer sheath is to attach the factory spliced end to a suitable anchor, then use a rappel rack (does'nt spin the rope like other rappel devices) and rappel over and over again down the line, say aorund 20 times. You want to rap down the full length of the rope, this will stretch it out, set the weave, and the end of the rope can be trimmed of the excess sheath.


EDIT: i just did this on a friends kernmantle core static static rope, milked over 3 feet off of it. Helps to use a spring loaded clamp to hold the milkybits from creeping back upthe rope, at least until you can cut and whip the end.